Poland


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Mosca, 23 agosto 1939

Prove di dialogo tra russi e polacchi. Vladimir Putin propone un percorso di avvicinamento simile a quello realizzato da francesi e tedeschi, la cui riconciliazione ha posto le fondamenta per la costituzione dell’Unione europea. I due popoli slavi sono divisi da secoli di incomprensioni e guerre. E’ venuto il momento, secondo il primo ministro russo, di voltare pagina.

Per prima cosa Mosca e Varsavia hanno costituito una commissione mista di storici con il compito di analizzare le troppe differenze esistenti. La “memoria” nella “nuova Europa”, ex satellite del Cremlino, ed in Russia non ha ancora seguito quell’evoluzione dolorosa maturata nelle libere democrazie occidentali tra il 1945 ed il crollo del Muro di Berlino. I vari politici della regione si ritrovano, pertanto, oggi davanti a scogli insormontabili.

Il patto Ribbentrop–Molotov fu un “atto immorale – ha dichiarato Putin -. Tuttavia, l’Urss era rimasta sola, a tu per tu, con la Germania, poiché gli occidentali si rifiutarono di costituire un unico sistema di difesa collettivo”. Per l’ex presidente l’intesa di Monaco di Baviera, sancita pochi mesi prima nel settembre 1938 tra le democrazie europee ed Hitler, aveva scompaginato le fila dei nemici del nazismo ed aveva “portato sfiducia e sospetto”. Francia e Gran Bretagna spingevano il pericolo tedesco “verso Est”.

Ma è il tragico capitolo dell’eccidio di Katyn – 22mila polacchi massacrati dalla polizia segreta di Stalin nel 1940 – ad avvelenare i rapporti bilaterali e di riflesso raffreddare quelli europei col Cremlino. Mosca ha ammesso sì dopo cinque decenni le sue responsabilità, ma ha consegnato solo in parte la documentazione a propria disposizione – 67 tomi su 183 – per “ragioni di segretezza”. Putin, seduto affianco del collega polacco Tusk, ha chiesto ieri uguale possibilità d’ingresso negli archivi. Mosca vuole conosce la sorte dei propri 94mila militari, fatti prigionieri da Varsavia nel 1920.

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Katyn

La storia dell’Europa centro-orientale nel XX secolo è una terribile sequenza di eventi sanguinosi. Chi più ne ha più ne metta. La mossa russa di voler finalmente discutere del passato serve ora a riaprire un qualche dialogo con i Paesi ex satelliti, dove la revisione impazza. In Ucraina, ad esempio, numerosi sono i monumenti eretti dedicati ad “eroi” nazionali macchiatisi di crimini efferati, spesso insieme alle SS naziste.

Le falsificazioni sono un pericolo reale e certe libere interpretazioni, che stravolgono verità provate, sono da troppo tempo utilizzate in chiave anti-russa. Il Cremlino se n’è reso conto. Interessante è la contemporanea pubblicazione, per la prima volta, da parte del controspionaggio russo SVR dei documenti sulla politica polacca tra il ’35 ed il ’45. Varsavia, allora, tentava di destabilizzare l’Ucraina ed il Caucaso. Sarà un ennesimo episodio di “disinformatsija”, in cui i russi sono maestri?

Per le scelte di Putin sono positivi i commenti di politici e mass media polacchi. “Una cosa saggia che avrà ripercussioni sui rapporti mondiali”, ha sottolineato l’ex premier Miller, conscio che la Polonia aveva offerto sul suo territorio siti per lo Scudo spaziale Usa in Europa.

La “nuova pagina”, a cui si riferiva Putin, si chiama mutua ricchezza. Mentre politici e storici infiammavano le proprie opinione pubbliche gli imprenditori hanno fatto in questi anni affari d’oro. L’interscambio tra russi e polacchi letteralmente vola!

Giuseppe D’Amato

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Today in Warsaw


Pan Wajda

The truth on a crime hidden for half of a century. The defeat of a perfidious fabrication based on the silence. The will to give his farewell to this unbelievable tragedy. Katyn by Andrzej Wajda summarizes all this.

Its watching is in some points simply upsetting: impressive psychological portraits are mixed with scenes from a shambles. “We have been waiting for the right moment to make a film on the massacre of Katyn. The lie and the crime, connected with this event, are well inside our national conscience,” says the great Polish director.

More than 22 thousand Polish citizens, taken prisoners in autumn 1939, were slaughtered in USSR by NKVD, Stalinist secret police, in spring 1940. For decades the Nazi were unfairly accused of this butchery. “That dreadful falsehood was one of the basis of the Polish – Soviet friendship even if there were documents, dated 1943, that stated the opposite. It was denied the obvious ”, underlines Wajda.

The relatives of the victims were frightened to accept the invitation to attend the film that  was watched by more than 3 million people only in Poland. “Many of them lived those terrible years again at the cinema and found in the film episodes from their personal tragedies”, admits Isabella Sariusz Skapska, secretary of the Association of  Families.

“For years we have been seen photos and documents of Katyn, but there wasn’t the image,” says Andrzej Wajda in his Warsaw’s school of cinema. “We needed to explain in a visual way how a tragedy like this could happen. Such terrible historical events must find their place in the art if we want them to survive in the memory. Watching the film, people understand that this is the past. There’s no aim of revenge. Our film is a kind of funeral, an attempt to close with this drama forever.”

Which sources did you use? “The documents signed by Stalin and the Politburo are well known. Our work is not a documentary film. The events in the plot are taken from the tales of the victims and of their families. They are real stories.”

You have dedicated this film to your parents. How much is it autobiographic? “It isn’t all. My father was killed in the prison in Kharkov after being in Starobelsk. My mother lived till 1950 hoping that my father were safe. There wasn’t his name on the first edited Katyn list. Only thanks to the Red Cross aid later we discovered the truth.”

You are saying that there isn’t any personal element Katyn, aren’t you? “A character that is, may be, close to my mother is Anna, Andrzej’s wife, the officer of cavalry. In the film she is played by Maja Ostaszewska. It’s the woman who gives the farewell to her husband who goes to the captivity.”

In your film you used two real historically true symbolic images: a coming down from the cross Christ with a broken arm who lies among injured prisoners under a plaid and some Soviet troops who tear out the Polish flag. “It wasn’t necessary to have many. We used also some pieces from the original German and Soviet propaganda films of that period. We didn’t touch them, because this is the best way to show the manipulation of the truth. The event is the same, but the remarks are different. At the end of the film we added from the literature another symbol, that is the history of Antigon. A girl cuts her hair to defend the memory of her brother who dies fighting for his right to state that his father was killed by the Soviets.”

In your opinion, what did the Soviet  executioners think doing their dirty work? “There are documents with their number and names. NKVD’s killers slaughtered a victim after another. They did it mechanically without thinking. It’s impossible to carry out certain orders in another way. Every day they had to murder a hundred of Polish prisoners. From April 5th to the beginning of June 22 thousand people from 3 camps were killed. The most incredible thing is that even the Soviet executioners were later killed, because they became dangerous eyewitnesses.”

Is that of Katyn a crime of communism or of a totalitarian system? “The communism was a totalitarian system. Soviet Russia was a totalitarian State. This is a crime against humanity, one of the biggest reason of today’s bad relationship between Warsaw and Moscow. The Russians speak about Katyn as a tragedy provoked by the situation. We were enemies in war. The Poles respond it wasn’t necessary to kill all those people.”

Moscow’s newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta harshly criticized your film arguing that you didn’t use trustworthy sources. “It is not true. The documents are clear. The Germans discovered the mass graves and they analysed them in 1943. When the Polish prisoners were killed those regions were in Soviet hands. Berja and Central Committee’s documents with Stalin’s signature were delivered to President Lech Walesa in the Nineties. The rest was found in victims’ pockets. There are detailed notes, where everything is written. For example, from Adam Solski’s diary ‘we got on a truck at 6 in the morning. Who knows what’s going to happen?’ In the film we used this historical testimony.”

What was the most difficult thing to do in this film? “It was the decision to make the film. But, then, how to play it? How and what to tell? The killed soldiers’ stories? The women’ ones? Which historical period should we choose? We had to select the material. A film like this one must last no more than two hours. Was it better to decide for the story of one family or of more people? I chose to have more characters to use more memories and to be more free in the plot.”

Your film was shown in Moscow only twice at the mid of March: in the House of Cinema and in the House of Literature. There are serious problems. Katyn goes against common Russian belief of their history. “We have contacts with the human rights society Memorial. We are looking for fearless people who want to distribute our film.”

From your point of view, is this the time for the penitent of the Russians, as heirs of Soviet Union, and for Polish forgiveness? “The film was made with this idea. Russians made important steps ahead with the delivery of the documents during Mr. Gorbacev and Yeltsin Presidencies. May be, we should have made Katyn ten years ago. But this is art! The only thing I don’t want now is the political manipulation of our film.”

Personally, as a practicing Catholic, do you forgive your father’s killers? Mr. Wajda turns his face on his right side. He keeps silent for long endless seconds when we regret for this necessary question. Then, the great Polish director frowns and answers with a trembling voice. His eyes have become watery all of a sudden. “The Russians must face their own past. They must stop with their tales about their history full of glory and with their speeches on ideal systems. They should follow the example of Solgenitsin and of  Memorial. Here, we are not speaking about the forgiveness of one person, but of the entire Polish society. After the end of World War II Polish bishops wrote a letter to the German episcopate. They pardoned German people, because they saw convincing steps from the other side. You may forgive when the others recognize their sins.”

Giuseppe D’Amato

March 24th, 2008

 

See also Katyn. The end of a shame? EuropaRussia April 7th, 2010.

 

 

 


Interview to Mr. Lech Kaczyński, new Polish president – October 2005

 1. “It’s not true that especially people from the countryside and from the provinces voted for me. It’s a myth! Important parts of the Polish society are worried about market economy. We will change this attitude. However, we can’t deny that Donald Tusk has obtained a considerable amount of votes in big towns”.

  1. “I need a period of rest” (before stepping in as the new president).
  2. You have been described as an euro-sceptic. “I’m against the EU Constitution, but I was for the entry of Poland to the European Union on May 1st, 2004”.
  3. “I’m for the complete participation of Poland in EU, but I’m also for the defence of the Polish interests”.

Relationship with Russia? “It’s important for us to establish a firm policy towards Moscow. We are looking for EU members, who may help us to  carry on this political line”.


Intervista al presidente Lech Kaczyński – Ottobre 2005

Varsavia. Lech Kaczyński ed il gemello Jarosław sono stati innegabilmente i due grandi personaggi di questa interminabile tornata elettorale polacca, iniziata con le legislative del 25 settembre e proseguite con il primo turno delle presidenziali il 9 ottobre scorso. I due fratelli conservatori hanno sbaragliato completamente la concorrenza.

Il più giovane – essendo nato 45 minuti dopo – è stato eletto capo dello Stato al ballottaggio del 23 ottobre contro il liberale Donald Tusk in uno scontro tutto in famiglia fra eredi di Solidarność, mentre il maggiore si è imposto alle parlamentari, ma ha rinunciato alla carica di primo ministro a favore del semisconosciuto economista Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz. “Due fratelli Kaczyński al potere sono troppo per la Polonia”, hanno dichiarato di comune accordo.

 Chi ha lavorato con loro ha confidato che anche dopo anni è difficile riconoscerli. Lech è sposato ed ha una figlia, Jarosław invece non ha legami familiari. La loro carriera si è svolta all’ombra di Lech Walesa, che, tuttavia, ha appoggiato Donald Tusk insieme al presidente uscente Aleksandr Kwaśniewski.

 “Non è vero che mi hanno votato soprattutto nelle province e nelle zone rurali – dice il neoleader polacco -. E’ un mito! Ampie fasce della società sono preoccupate dell’economia di mercato. Cambieremo questo atteggiamento. Tuttavia, non si può nemmeno negare che Donald Tusk abbia ottenuto considerevoli consensi nelle grandi città”1.

Quale sarà la prima decisione che prenderà da presidente della Polonia? “Prima di tutto sarà necessario che mi prenda un piccolo periodo di riposo”2.

In alcuni ambienti di Bruxelles Lei è stato descritto come un euroscettico. Quale è la sua posizione sui rapporti con l’Unione europea? “Sono contrario alla Costituzione Ue, ma sono stato favorevole all’adesione del mio Paese all’Unione europea, avvenuta il primo maggio 2004”3.

 A Varsavia si fa un gran parlare della cosiddetta “Dimensione orientale”, ossia la politica estera da portare avanti nei confronti dei Paesi vicini ex sovietici. “Le ripeto. Sono per la piena partecipazione della Polonia all’Ue, ma sono anche per la difesa degli interessi polacchi”4.

A Kiev l’anno scorso, durante la rivoluzione arancione si è registrato quasi uno scontro tra l’Ue e Russia, tra Varsavia e Russia. Cosa succederà sotto la sua presidenza? In Ucraina e Bielorussia si voterà nella prossima primavera. “Per noi è importante definire una politica ferma da avere nei confronti di Mosca. Cerchiamo all’interno dell’Ue dei membri che ci aiutino a portare avanti insieme questo tipo di linea”5.

Giuseppe D’Amato

Interview to Mr. Lech Kaczyński, new Polish president – October 2005

 1. “It’s not true that especially people from the countryside and from the provinces voted for me. It’s a myth! Important parts of the Polish society are worried about market economy. We will change this attitude. However, we can’t deny that Donald Tusk has obtained a considerable amount of votes in big towns”.

  1. “I need a period of rest” (before stepping in as the new president).
  2. You have been described as an euro-sceptic. “I’m against the EU Constitution, but I was for the entry of Poland to the European Union on May 1st, 2004”.
  3. “I’m for the complete participation of Poland in EU, but I’m also for the defence of the Polish interests”.

Relationship with Russia? “It’s important for us to establish a firm policy towards Moscow. We are looking for EU members, who may help us to  carry on this political line”. 


“По-моему, россияние находятся в таком очень сложном положении, они еще находятся в ментальном плену прошлого. Огромное государство, с огромным авторитетом и позицией в мире, вдруг остается Россия, Россия обедневшая, с разными проблемами, трудностями, и в этоже время наступают такие явления, которые для них очень болезненны, связанные с тем, что происходит на Украине. Некоторые высказывания политиков Польши им тоже не понять”.generaleJaruzelski

  Можно пример?

“Вспоминают все время горькое прошлое, для нас оно горькое, а они видят другое. У нас некоторые недооценивают роль Советского Союза в разгроме гитлеровской Германии. Говорят, что одна оккупация сменилась другой. Это для них очень болезненно. Я это понимаю и считаю, что это неправильно. Потому что оккупация фашистская, немецкая это действительно страшная оккупация. А это был ограниченный суверенитет со стороны России, и трудно это назвать оккупацией. Они очень болезненно это воспринимают, тем более, что в польской земле лежат 600 тысяч советских солдат. Их памятники сносят, и так далее”.

 Я думаю, что этого аргумента России недостаточно…

“Они очень болезненно это воспринимают. Но с другой стороны, есть там и националистические, постимпериальные настроения. Я думаю, что должно пройти еще лет 10-20, прийдет новое поколение, и эта история уже не будет такой острой…”

“А на сколько опасно сейчас объединиться с Украиной, защищать вступление Украины в европейское сообщество и оставить Россию за бортом. Насколько есть такая опасность, что Россия может остатся на краю, что границы Европы могут проходить по границе Украины.

 Это в каком-то смысле уже совершилось сейчас”.

  Украина идет по пути Европы, а Россия может остаться за бортом.

“Россия это можно сказать континент. Это не просто такое одно государство. Она не войдет в ближайшее время в рамки евросоюза или чего-либо еще. Сейчас самое главное, чтобы было хорошее сотрудничество, взаимопонимание. Россия имеет огромные возможности, сырьевые особенно: нефть, газ… Если их связать с технологическими возможностями Запада, это дало бы огромные шансы России, ускорение модернизации”.

 А Вам не кажется, что руководство России отходит от европейских стандартов…

 “Есть такие некоторые показатели, которые об этом свидетельствуют. Но с другой стороны я стараюсь смотреть на это более спокойно, потому что повернуть назад историю уже не удастся. Уже нет возможности вернуться к сталинизму,  даже ко временам Брежнева. Это не возможно. Сейчас приспосабливаются  к новым условиям, и Путин принял приоритет, чтобы было сильное государство, чтобы было управляемое государство, и поэтому он хочет все взять в руки. До какого-то момента можно это понять, потому что очень сильно все было разрушено, расшатано, но самое главное, чтобы это не перешло слишком глубоко, в такую твердую авторитарную систему”.

 А Вы видите опасность этого?

“Опасность всегда есть, но я верю, что до этой крайности не дойдет”.

 Было выгодно для Польши войти в ЕС?

“Очень выгодно. Я лично большой сторонник нашего входа в ЕС. Я считаю, что у нас огромный шанс, и не только в смысле экономическом, хотя это, можно сказать, основное, чтобы приблизиться к  экономическому уровню Западной Европы. Но это важно также в ментальном смысле. Войти в орбиту демократических государств, стран, которые имеют уже опыт демократии. Окрепли уже политические силы, политические партии, которые у нас все новые появляются, уходит одна, приходит другая: все еще не образовалась такая нормальная политическая картина. И я думаю, что вход в ЕС дает нам шанс, чтобы вырасти в нормальную…”

 Как может Польша влиять на политику ЕС на востоке.

 “В каком то смысле может влиять, все- таки  40-миллионное государство, в центре Европы, как раз на границе востока с западом. Мы имеем большой опыт отношений с востоком, с Россией, Украиной, тут есть и язык, и разные общие решения и я думаю, что мы были бы таким очень выжным мостом между Россией и евросоюзом. Пока это не получается, потому что у нас отношения с Россией не очень важные (хорошие), но по самой природе мы должны в этом направлении идти”.

 Есть идея некоторых экспертов, напр., Бржезинский,  круг некоторых американских политиков и так далее, что Украина, Польша и Прибалтика могут быть поясом, изолирующим Россию. Как Вы думаете, это хорошая идея?

 “Не хорошая. Любая изоляция плоха. Она рано или поздно кончится провалом. Самое главное делать все, чтобы избежать этого. Россия имеет сейчас критическое положение, большие трудности, но это огромная страна. Если взять сейчас сырьевой потенциал России – это 30 биллионов долларов, США – 6, Китай – 5, а Западная Европа пол-биллиона. Это значит, какие возможности имеются, если взять западные технологии и связать с этой огромной сырьевой базой!  Поэтому надо сделать все, чтобы не отгораживаться, а приближать диалог”.

Джузеппе Д’Амато 

2005


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